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What's it's status?
Shiny Ascended Being 45%  45%  [ 15 ]
A good soul and EEG at 1.1Hz 39%  39%  [ 13 ]
BP 120/80, 60bpm, looking okay 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Going Tachy..Get the paddles! 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
____________________________ 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 33
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:06 pm 
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That was the best this year. Genuinely creepy.

And did we hear just the hint of a Doctor theme when he sent the 2Ders back.

Then that last scene. More and more convinced there is a real split personality there, fighting for control.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:11 pm 
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That was an excellent episode and much better than the trailer made out. I'm sure the "Clara show" brigade will find plenty to moan about but I'd say it really wasn't the Doctor-lite episode some feared. It was also most definitely not another Fear Her. This episode mixed a near perfect comedy/horror/surreal/grotesque cocktail. The entire shrinking TARDIS idea produced some of the most bizarre moments be it Peter Capaldi squeezing his tall, skinny frame out of the door at the beginning to the looney tunesque sledgehammer from the handbag to the wonderful hand/TARDIS crab.
While Clara was on-screen more this episode it was not at the expense of the Doctor, the episode would not have worked anywhere near as well if the positions had been reversed as then the Doctor probably would have spent all episode trying to save the TARDIS and Clara not working to stop the Boneless (a name that I think is sadly lacking oomph). Despite his lack of physical presence for the main adventure he was guiding the action and problem solving throughout except for that final solution to repowering the TARDIS and even there he'd planted the seed of the idea.
When the TARDIS went into siege mode was I alone in being reminded of the Lament Configuration (in some bizarre parallel universe are the Cenobites evil timelords). The visual of the Boneless once they became partially 3D was suitably creepy and almost as disturbing as the Foretold last week but for all the good fx this week, the policewoman being absorbed, the murals turning around, the glitching 3D Boneless, how come the train in the tunnel looked so false, couldn't they just film a real train.
For those people who have said they've not had that "these shoes" moment yet with Capaldi I'd say there were a few this episode, his little triumphant dance and his "The man that stops the monsters" speech. If you can't see The Doctor now then you need to see the optician.
So Missy is back and now she seems to have something to do with Clara, considering she's been portrayed as some kind of gatherer of souls lost protecting the Doctor does that mean that this Clara could actually be not quite as alive as we think and if that is the case when did she change? I'm not sure if that's what is being suggested but it's a possible reading.
I really enjoyed this episode and would probably rate it as one of the top 4 this series.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Loved it, that's two in a row that are, for me, utterly Doctor Who. My only niggle is the, once again, Sonic waving solution, but it's a fairly small niggle considering the rest of the episode.

The TARDIS changes its appearance, and it would crack the surface of the Earth if it wasn't made to be lighter. Significant facts to add to canon.

The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Hornetxt wrote:
For those people who have said they've not had that "these shoes" moment yet with Capaldi I'd say there were a few this episode, his little triumphant dance and his "The man that stops the monsters" speech. If you can't see The Doctor now then you need to see the optician.

I have enjoyed Capaldi so far, but THAT speech is what I have personally been waiting for.
Great stuff delivered superbly.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Tao wrote:
The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
Something in the back of my mind is saying Pixar or animation of some kind.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Trumpetmike wrote:
Tao wrote:
The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
Something in the back of my mind is saying Pixar or animation of some kind.


Spoiler:
I would say trust the back of your mind. :smoth:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Tao wrote:
Trumpetmike wrote:
Tao wrote:
The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
Something in the back of my mind is saying Pixar or animation of some kind.


Spoiler:
I would say trust the back of your mind. :smoth:


Spoiler:
It's Toy Story. A113 would be for the third film.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:58 pm 
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SaynaHawk wrote:
Tao wrote:
Trumpetmike wrote:
Tao wrote:
The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
Something in the back of my mind is saying Pixar or animation of some kind.


Spoiler:
I would say trust the back of your mind. :smoth:


Spoiler:
It's Toy Story. A113 would be for the third film.


Nope.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:01 pm 
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Tao wrote:
Trumpetmike wrote:
Tao wrote:
The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
Something in the back of my mind is saying Pixar or animation of some kind.


Spoiler:
I would say trust the back of your mind. :smoth:


But not the bit that chose the pink wig.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:15 pm 
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There's a long story regarding the wig - it has a lot of trumpet history in it.

Wish I could remember exactly the details from my mind - can I get a smaller number of points for what little I recall?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Tao wrote:

The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
It's an ongoing link in most of the Pixar movies, it crops up all over the place (Mater's license plate, the scuba diver's camera in Nemo, courtroom number in Up etc) I believe it was the classroom number John Lasseter, Brad Bird, Pete Dokter et al shared at college

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:26 pm 
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mozz wrote:
Tao wrote:

The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
It's an ongoing link in most of the Pixar movies, it crops up all over the place (Mater's license plate, the scuba diver's camera in Nemo, courtroom number in Up etc) I believe it was the classroom number John Lasseter, Brad Bird, Pete Dokter et al shared at college


Spoiler:
I bow down before your superior knowledge - THAT was what was hiding in my mind. Thanks for the reminder


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:29 pm 
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mozz wrote:
Tao wrote:

The first train that almost destroyed the TARDIS had the number A113. A hundred kudos points to anyone who knows the significance of that.

Spoiler:
It's an ongoing link in most of the Pixar movies, it crops up all over the place (Mater's license plate, the scuba diver's camera in Nemo, courtroom number in Up etc) I believe it was the classroom number John Lasseter, Brad Bird, Pete Dokter et al shared at college



100 kudos points, redeemable at your local Milliways, to mozz there!

10 point consolation prize to Trumpetmike.

Follow this link for the best explanation I've found recently.

Er, yeah, Docter Who eh? As you were. :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Yeah, I'm a bit of a Pixar anorak. I did notice the train and did a little squee. If a Pizza Planet truck had turned up, I would have had a full on geekgasm. :ffwub:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:59 pm 
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Flatline... didn't!

So yes, this was a pretty decent episode. I'd set my sights low, so low that it'd only have to step over it to be good but thankfully it took a run up and brought its own pole too.

There was talk that it'd be another Fear Her and I don't think it was at all, this was far better. As I said before the idea of Clara being the Doctor for a day would've had more impact if we'd not already seen it 100 times before and yes, a soniced ending is shat, but I at least got the impression that the glowing green field of energy that was holding them at bay was being generated from the TARDIS and the sonic was just the cue to dissipate it and therefore the 2D thingies (I would use the name the Doctor called them but I couldn't hear what he said over the sound effect or music or whatever it was that drowned it out).

Interestingly, I think the writer's ploy to get her to be the Doctor for the day actually went a bit askew as they ended up working as a team - which is exactly the place they should be at! It's a shame it's not more of a team effort each week really, though I imagine some of you are scratching your heads now as wondering if I'm alright. Yes thanks, I am.

The problem with the super-Clara (or companion generally) is that it undermines the Doctor, his knowledge and power and completely the other way renders the companion a liability. There needs to be balance. Sad thing is I feel the inclusion of Missy again hints that Clara is some puppet piece designed to be super by Missy in some way. I hope we're not heading down the route of plot-reuse again and this is gonna end up being a mash-up of the Amy/River/Kovarian style story again.

New Who does love it's shambling monsters though doesn't it? Nice visual effect of the glitches but why the CGI train?

Tao wrote:
The TARDIS changes its appearance, and it would crack the surface of the Earth if it wasn't made to be lighter. Significant facts to add to canon.


Are they? Well, the weight is a clarification anyway - in one of Tom's stories there is a line about the weight being something by something divided by the weight of the planet and something. Plus I was under the impression that the exterior is the only bit that interfaces with our dimension, so that would be the only bit that could be weighed, the interior is in there but in another dimension - hence why the time meddling in Fathers Day flips it out and the exterior and interior go out of sync. Plus surely we all knew it could change its exterior look... if it wasn't supposed to be broken in some way.

So...

I liked this one. :holyshit:

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Last edited by Perdide on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:01 pm 
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mozz wrote:
Yeah, I'm a bit of a Pixar anorak. I did notice the train and did a little squee. If a Pizza Planet truck had turned up, I would have had a full on geekgasm. :ffwub:



A nice nod to the 2D nature of the protagonists perhaps. I actually paused the episode to explain to my wife why I'd just point at the telly and shouted "Ah! Ah hah ha!".

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Perdide wrote:
(I would use the name the Doctor called them but I couldn't hear what he said over the sound effect or music or whatever it was that drowned it out)


Boneless. You did well to miss that.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:40 pm 
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mozz wrote:
Perdide wrote:
(I would use the name the Doctor called them but I couldn't hear what he said over the sound effect or music or whatever it was that drowned it out)


Boneless. You did well to miss that.


Oh dear. :frown: Well, I guess he made it up on the spot.

Shame he hasn't gone full Tucker - he could have said "I name you - a bunch of spineless bastards." Would've been interesting. :longwink:

EDIT: Did anyone else think the locked down TARDIS cube looked a bit like a mini-Pandorica??

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:29 am 
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I'm guessing he was having a craving for KFC when he came up with that name.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:39 am 
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Hornetxt wrote:
I'm guessing he was having a craving for KFC when he came up with that name.


Heh heh. "I name you the Zinger Tower Burgers!"

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:06 am 
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Tao wrote:
100 kudos points, redeemable at your local Milliways, to mozz there!

10 point consolation prize to Trumpetmike.


:banana: YAY :banana:

Tao wrote:
Heh heh. "I name you the Zinger Tower Burgers!"


Awesome


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:42 am 
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I really hated Clara in this one.

The Doctor acting like a powerless whingeing child too. :(


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:08 am 
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I really enjoyed this one. In fact it's my second favourite of the season so far after Robot of Sherwood (don't start!!! :longwink: ). I know it's gonna get flack from the Clara haters but I really loved her stepping up to the Doctor's role in this even if she is still lying to Danny about what she's doing and he looks really dim for not figuring it out while they're on the phone. And it's probably just me but she made me think of the final line in Survival when she told Rigsy on the train there's work to be done.

It may have threatened to get too techno-babbly at times and it was annoying how the Doctor was able to cobble a device together for making the doors 3D again but I loved Clara's solution for bringing the Tardis back and while the sonic screwdriver was out for the entire ep and typically used to banish the Boneless once and for all at the end I didn't think at was nearly as unforgivable as the end of The Power of Three.

The effects for the Boneless were brilliant. The way the floor crept up on the police officer made me think of Terminator 2 and I actually jumped when that huge hand appeared out of the dark.

Rigsy was a great companion's companion. In fact I liked him more than Danny and he thankfully didn't come across as the stereotypical chav that he could have been. And as we saw with Fenton at the end I was glad that not everyone saved was all that likeable. The last time that happened was Midnight.

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Fuck yeah, I was practically a gibbering wreck by the end.

And finally Moxey gets to be someone even less sympathetic than the "there aint no bat" guy.


I'm so glad it wasn't just me who noticed that as well. It must be because he was wearing a baseball cap in this too. If I'd been watching this with other people they'd have said I've watched that film far too many times. By the way he was also The Broker in Guardians of the Galaxy.

Anyway......

I'm almost interested in who Missy is after that final scene.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:37 am 
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For those who watch BBC 1 all night on Saturdays.. How sad Geoff from Casualty has been killed twice in 3 weeks :gasp:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:57 am 
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Yep really enjoyed that. Here Clara gets to see how it actually feels to be the Doctor all the time - the responsibility, the need to lie and inspire etc. I am intrigued about the line about her sense of goodness. Is it because Clara is addicted to the lifestyle?

Capaldi even when locked in a room is magnetic - full of jokes, observations and Addams Family TARDIS moves!!! I also liked the victory dance. He's not nearly as dark as he would like to think

Definitely one of the creepiest shows and a high body count just what Who needed :)

Final observation is that this episode proves a female Doctor can work


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:15 am 
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I thoroughly enjoyed that episode. It was quite brilliantly done.
Even though there was a lot of Clara, it wasn't at all like the first few episodes, where she was just very annoying.

The two dimensional creatures coming out of the flat surfaces were indeed very creepy.

And yes I did appreciate that amongst the ones saved, were some that did not seem to be deserving of saving, but that's life and I think it's better/fairer than having only "good" people saved (which usually happens in fairytales)

And I am intrigued about Missy too. Is she some being, who discovered that Clara had fractured herself through time and space to save all the Doctors?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:24 am 
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Perdide wrote:
mozz wrote:
Perdide wrote:
(I would use the name the Doctor called them but I couldn't hear what he said over the sound effect or music or whatever it was that drowned it out)


Boneless. You did well to miss that.


Oh dear. :frown: Well, I guess he made it up on the spot.

Shame he hasn't gone full Tucker - he could have said "I name you - a bunch of spineless bastards." Would've been interesting. :longwink:

EDIT: Did anyone else think the locked down TARDIS cube looked a bit like a mini-Pandorica??


Thanks. That's what was in the bank of my mind. I was looking at it and something was nagging at me.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Trumpetmike wrote:
I have enjoyed Capaldi so far, but THAT speech is what I have personally been waiting for.
Great stuff delivered superbly.

This.

Great episode, seems we may have settled on a personality for the Doctor at last, and I can't help feeling Clara is heading for a major fall be the season's end.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:02 pm 
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My turn now...
Something in this episode really really bugged me - a lot. Though, to add a bit of dramatic tension to my review, I shan't reveal what it was until later.
Usually I don't read what others have put until after I have posted, but for some reason I have today. Not really a problem, its just I tend to like putting what I think without getting tangled trying to answer what everybody else has put, especially if I have missed a vast outpouring of reviews.

To business...

Firstly as with those above, I didn't think this was 'Fear Her 2' in that it wasn't as poor, but it certainly had vibes of that story as well as the "aliens" being the 2(n)d-cousins of the Vashta Nerada. I said before it aired; it was an interesting premise, but I didn't think it would be used very well. I was almost wrong, but not quite. It wasn't that I was dreading this episode, but my expectations are so low not even a 2-dimensional being would be able to get under them. This episode, as did last week, just managed to pitch themselves above my threshold of current WHO quality. Interesting to note that they were both by the same writer, so they had better ask him back again.

As I alluded to, there were things that were wrong with this episode, but for about 25 minutes it was going ok-ish. It was around the change from train-shed to tunnel, that it lost it a bit as the 2-d creatures decided to join the ranks of generic New-Who monsters [SEE last week].
One or two nice moments - the tranformtion of the furniture, and no.22's "death". Nevertheless the supporting characters were prettty much standard cliched fair, but Jovian Wade's "Rigsy" was aptly 2-dimensional, but that makes him 1 better than Danny Pink. How did "pudding-brain" know how to drive a train, anyway? That was an irk, but no it wasn't that which was the massive bug.

I can't really be bothered to go over everything. I will say that Clara wasn't as annoying for the whole episode as I anticipated. The smirking at the begining of the episode didn't bode well, but once she had her companion in Rigsy it was not without merrit. What I mean is, that unlike the majority of her "jollies" there was reason for what she was doing and why. The problem is the past (or her lack of one) in that she comes from a basis of nothing, and that basically she can be whatever they want her to be in each episode. Therefore, had she been written better for the previous 20 (or however many) episodes, and not been overused to be the solution to everything ever in every episode - then there might have been some pay-off in this scenerio. Likewise, with the Doctor having not done anything previously, why should we care he was trapped? Admitedly it was a good use of him being trapped, and Capaldi is just getting there slowly, but again if the POINT of the season is: What is a good person? Then the problem lies in the foundations in episodes 2 to 6. I know those asked questions of him and whatever, but it wasn't done well enough or subtly enough to warrant the POINT of this adventure - in Bristol.

So - the thing that bugged me the most, apart from "OH-WHAT-A-JOLLY-HOLLIDAY-WITH-YOU" MISSY, was...
The use of a preserved Diesel Multiple Unit in ye olde BR Green - for Beeching's sake!! The driver did say it was empty or something, so it could be that it was being moved after some sort of restoration/servicing, but I don't think that was the intention. I'm far from an expert, but it really does bug me that the (or any) production team don't research some of the peripheral details. They think it is ok to just pop along to the nearest preserved railway - in this case most likely Barry Island - and film any old loco and it doesn't matter to them; what or where, as long as it has wheels and windows and runs on rails, and goes chuff-chuff - or to be specific parp-parp.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:11 pm 
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Now I have a mental image of Fourth Planet sat at the end of the platform, in his anorak, on his deckchair, with a flask of luck warm lemon drink and a notepad, getting annoyed that the 13:47 from Euston is four minutes late...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:39 pm
Posts: 505
Gender: Male
I also thought the siege mode looked like the pandorica, I also wondered if the small tardis was a CO one.

That CGi train was ropey as hell, but that is my only minor gripe in an otherwise excellent episode.

As for how did he know how to drive a train?

Maybe stealing a train is why he was doing community service in the first place.


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