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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 am 
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Hopefully a second viewing this week will determine how I fully feel about the film. With SW movies I find a couple of viewings are needed to fully pick up on everything.
That being said I don't think its a bad movie and I commend them for having some balls to take some risks however I didn't get that sense of excitement after seeing this film, nor (right now) do I have the inclination to be at a midnight screening for episode 9.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:36 am 
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Talon you are not alone....I hated this movie. Why? Because it was overlong and boring. the Original trilogy worked as did Rogue one because they were fun and exciting. Rebels worked because it is fun and exciting...this however is just an overlong mess which makes no sense from the ridiculous cameo of a certain character ( when they are looking for a splicer) going through a "union dispute" to the entire sequence on the gambling planet...preach irritating nonsense as bad if not worse than the prequels that has forgotten this film is supposed to be fun. And as for the backlash , this isn't DC fans "conspiring" it's simply that the audience doesn't agree with the critics...this is as was already said a marmite film , you will either love or hate it but the gushing on this one will just like The force awakens ( remember when Force got only positive reviews) fade and in a few months the problems the film has will come to the fore....oh just remember it has happened before...remember SFX thought the Phantom Menace was better than Jedi....once!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:42 am 
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johnone wrote:
And as for the backlash , this isn't DC fans "conspiring" it's simply that the audience doesn't agree with the critics


The only way we will know that the audience genuinely disagree with the critics is if attendance drops off. If normal people don't like films they tell their friends. They don't make it their life's work to bring the RT audience score down. I think we are just hearing a tiny but noisy minority.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Not in this case, people will go because it's a Star Wars movie...the true test will be (to some extent) Ron Howards "Solo" movie and the next part of this trilogy ...and personally I have to say that after we came out after the showing both myself and my wife are thinking we just won't bother with the next part.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:45 pm 
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johnone wrote:
Not in this case, people will go because it's a Star Wars movie...the true test will be (to some extent) Ron Howards "Solo" movie and the next part of this trilogy ...and personally I have to say that after we came out after the showing both myself and my wife are thinking we just won't bother with the next part.


I liked this film and I'm not interested in the Han Solo film. They are two separate things.

We wouldn't judge whether any other film had good or bad word of mouth by waiting to see how a sequel did. If the RT score is genuine then TLJ will drop off faster than TFA. If the Cinemascore (A, same as TFA) is a better guide it won't. I know which one my money is on.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:21 pm 
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/20 ... 5240c54231

Well I'm convinced! I am sure it is only genuine anonymous randoms that are posting on RT :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Saw it today. No idea what 's been going on on RT, I'm not really interested in the site. For me, I don't rate it as one of the great Star Wars films. It was OK, that's about all I can bring myself to say about it. It was lacking a sense of fun, definitely. Some of the humour jarred with the quite bleak tone of most of the film; I'm not finding myself warming to most of the new characters and am cooling towards the older characters; there weren't really any properly exciting sequences during the film. It felt like two and a half hours, when it shouldn't have; I found myself glancing at my watch a few times. And after being annoyed how much The Force Awakens echoed A New Hope, once again this was, in many parts, doing the same with Empire Strikes Back.

It was, in many ways, a much better film that the prequels, but I think I enjoyed them more than I did this. And certainly enjoyed it much, much less than the original trilogy.

I don't know, I didn't hate it, but I didn't come out smiling or wishing for more, which is disappointing.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Watched Star Wars in the Swansea Odeon in 77 aged 10 with my Dad, I love STAR WARS I always have .... however I fucking hated this I sat there sighing at the ludicrousness of it all and I think the really bad George Lucas Phantom Menace style humour is what ruined it the most for me, just misplaced and mostly not funny

The slow chase of the rebel ship reminded me of OJ in teh Bronco ....call in reinforcements, jump ahead of them ... nope just slowly follow at a snails pace WTF

Everything on casino world WTF

The Moz scene was bad

I can go on and on but wont i will admit there were some stunning visuals the scene where the Rebel Ship jumps into the super star destroyer was BEAUTIFUL

worst star wars film ever I cannot believe that I actually prefer the Phantom menace over what I just watched .... disappointed :(

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:32 am 
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Yeah I definitely can see why you guys disliked it

Indeed it is what we grow beyond well you lot certainly

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:19 am 
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Tao wrote:
Saw it today. No idea what 's been going on on RT, I'm not really interested in the site. For me, I don't rate it as one of the great Star Wars films. It was OK, that's about all I can bring myself to say about it. It was lacking a sense of fun, definitely. Some of the humour jarred with the quite bleak tone of most of the film; I'm not finding myself warming to most of the new characters and am cooling towards the older characters; there weren't really any properly exciting sequences during the film. It felt like two and a half hours, when it shouldn't have; I found myself glancing at my watch a few times. And after being annoyed how much The Force Awakens echoed A New Hope, once again this was, in many parts, doing the same with Empire Strikes Back.

It was, in many ways, a much better film that the prequels, but I think I enjoyed them more than I did this. And certainly enjoyed it much, much less than the original trilogy.

I don't know, I didn't hate it, but I didn't come out smiling or wishing for more, which is disappointing.


Feel pretty much the same was as you.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:44 am 
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I really liked this a lot. A lot. Loved all the subverted expectations. I loved all the cliches. And the more I think about it, the more I can find only one bum note in the entire film. The more I think about it, the more it grows on me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:13 am 
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Knappos wrote:
And the more I think about it, the more I can find only one bum note in the entire film.


The Mary Poppins moment ?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Mr Cairo wrote:
Knappos wrote:
And the more I think about it, the more I can find only one bum note in the entire film.


The Mary Poppins moment ?


Mary Poppins moments are always the best bits. I'm Mary Poppins y'all!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:41 pm 
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I saw this twice in the cinema and both friends I was with both thought TLJ had a rushed story/screenplay.

I was entertained but too much was entrusted into Rian Johnson (with no JJ Abrams or some other solid screenwriter holding him back to polish the subplots and battle scenes) and so he stepped on too many toes.

The humour was fundamentally better functioning than anything Jar Jar did or what kid Anakin said (and not unintentionally funny as what older Anakin said) but at worse was tonally inappropriate in certain scenes.

The Last Jedi jazzed up the character developments for Rey and Kylo though. I had a feeling Snoke was going to be more Tarkin than Palpatine in his overall role in the current Trilogy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I saw this on opening night and have been meaning to post about it since but have had a really busy week and needed time to digest it. I liked a lot of it, and disliked some of it so I'll get that out of the way first and try to work my way up to what I liked.

The Monaco planet could've been left out entirely. Kelly Marie Tran may have been a great surprise addition, and played well off John Boyega, but the whole thing just felt filler designed to give them something to do. and wasn't it very convenient that they happened to end up in the same cell as the very guy they were looking for? I also Rose's declaration of love for Finn felt cheesy and out of step with what was going on at the time, something Rogue One thankfully never succumbed to at its climax.

Likewise the scene of Maz Kanata was put in there just to reassure everyone she was still alive when all she did was explain to Poe, Finn and Rose something they could have worked out themselves some other way.

When Leia got sucked out in to space I was thinking "there's no way that's how she's gonna go!" and thankfully she didn't. But the way she survived was ridiculous. Even Indy in the fridge didn't bother me as much. We've been waiting decades to see her skill with the Force on film and that's it!? Plus the film criminally missed an opportunity to put her and Ren on screen together which we'll now never get to see.

I also thought Ackbar's death deserved at least a passing mention, and for some reason was convinced Tim Rose had passed away last year but have now realised I was wrong.

Then there was Snoke. Would it have been so bad to tell us something about him? I'm not saying we needed a backstory that took up half the film but something about who he was and where he came in to all of this wouldn't have gone amiss. Yes I know it took a couple of decades to find out anything about Palpatine but sadly Snoke feels set to go down as the new saga's Dooku. Phasma was also wasted again but at least seeing her go down fighting Finn wasn't so bad.

I had a feeling Holdo was gonna grow on me, even when she and Poe were butting heads right from the off, and she did long before her George Kirk moment, which by the way looked stunning on the big screen and I think caused a few gasps in the audience.

I'm gonna admit to liking "holding for Hux!" and even wondered if Seth McFarlane had been allowed to write it.

As the previous film did with ANH, quite a bit of this was leaning towards TESB for inspiration, and ROTJ in one particular scene, before flipping it, which I could tell was gonna rile up a lot of the fanbase. The chase also made me think of the opening of BSGs first season as well. I was ready to roll my eyes at Ren bringing Rey to Snoke but I kind of liked the way it went despite Snoke's death (and was anyone else thinking of Mara Jade and the Thrawn trilogy?).

Which brings me to Luke. I could tell almost right away why Hamill disagreed with Johnson. For the last two years I was convinced Luke was gonna come back and take the Knights of Ren to town (speaking of which where are they again?). But you know what? I liked it. It was bold and daring, although I'll give it to Hamill for speaking his mind about it as he's doing now even when the film has just come out. His stance at the beginning reminded of Bruce in The Dark Knight Rises, and like I said I spent half the film thinking any time now he's gonna pull himself out of it and do what he has to do, which he eventually did come the climax. Sort of. And boy oh boy was that the most intense moment of the film for me. When Ren was trying to blow him away I was convinced he was just using the force to shield himself from it. I was thinking he's not pulled an Obi-Wan just to allow the others to get away. But then he did and I wasn't sure what to think.

To be honest I need to see this again to get a better feel for it but I will at some point. It didn't grab me as much as The Force Awakens but like I said it left me with a lot to think about.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:53 am 
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I finally saw this a couple of days after Christmas, after managing to avoid spoilers for a couple of weeks. The only things I had spoiled didn't actually play out the way I thought they would.

I loved it. Definitely better than the prequels, though I do like a bit more lightsaber duelling in my Star Wars, so I'm hoping Ep 9 brings a bit more.

I highly approved of the way it subverted many of the expected tropes of a Star Wars story (or any major blockbuster, really) while still giving us plenty of moments that were definitely "Star Wars". Luke's history and his life as a hermit were excellent. The reveal about Rey's parentage was just what I wanted it to be. Kylo Ren killing Snoke and taking over the FO at the mid-point of the trilogy leaves a lot of fertile ground for the third instalment.

What it reminded me of most was KOTOR 2 - a story that wasn't afraid to muse on the meaning of the Force, the nature of good and evil, and what it means to be a hero in this world.

It wasn't without its flaws, though. It had some of the same problems as TFA - the sudden eradication of the Resistance and the lack of any other First Order ships coming to help the Supremacy makes the galaxy feel tiny, and the continued issues over travel time and what that does to the pacing of the story are carried over from TFA. There were other things too, but mostly I'm happy to gloss over those as I enjoyed it so much.

Wee Little Puppet Man wrote:
The Monaco planet could've been left out entirely. Kelly Marie Tran may have been a great surprise addition, and played well off John Boyega, but the whole thing just felt filler designed to give them something to do. and wasn't it very convenient that they happened to end up in the same cell as the very guy they were looking for?


I agree that this was probably the worst segment for me. But they didn't find the guy they were looking for - Maz sent them to get one specific codebreaker (the one with the flower brooch) because he's the one she trusted to both do the job and (presumably) not sell them out if things got tough. They got A codebreaker, but her turned on them. It was pure coincidence that he was in the cell with them, but this is Star Wars - it runs on coincidences. I think the whole plotline was supposed to show us Finn learning some kind of lesson, but I've no idea what the lesson actually was.

Wee Little Puppet Man wrote:
When Leia got sucked out in to space I was thinking "there's no way that's how she's gonna go!" and thankfully she didn't. But the way she survived was ridiculous. Even Indy in the fridge didn't bother me as much. We've been waiting decades to see her skill with the Force on film and that's it!? Plus the film criminally missed an opportunity to put her and Ren on screen together which we'll now never get to see.


Well, given that most of the film was in the can when Carrie Fisher died, there's not much else they could have done. TFA was the "Han" film, this was the "Luke" film, and Ep 9 was meant to be the "Leia" film. So that confrontation would undoubtedly have happened in the next film. As it was, I read a rumour the other day that the scene of Leia using the Force in space was added digitally after Carrie Fisher died. I'm not convinced, but it does make some sense - no-one mentions what she did, there's just a line about her being the only survivor. Maybe originally she just managed to hold on inside the bridge until help arrived? So I think this was their chance to show Leia using the Force on screen, having sadly lost the opportunity to do it "properly" in the next film.

If they'd been able to, I think swapping Leia and Holdo would have worked well - allowing Leia to have a properly heroic sacrifice and passing the torch on to character I'd grown to like by the end.

Wee Little Puppet Man wrote:
I also thought Ackbar's death deserved at least a passing mention, and for some reason was convinced Tim Rose had passed away last year but have now realised I was wrong.


Ackbar did get mentioned, but it was just "We lost all the command staff - including Admiral Ackbar" or something like that. He was named, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:26 am 
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My Nephews saw it yesterday with their Father . They had thoughly enjoyed The Force Awakens , but apparently this earned a big Meh ?

At age 9 ¾ and 6 ½ you'd of thought that they would be the target audience , but neither they or their Dad ( same age as me ) were that impressed .

Won't see this for a while - not seen Force Awakens or Rouge Squadron yet , so reserve judgement until I can give an in depth personal viewing , but think this one has got a bit of a thumbs down ...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:17 pm 
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I loved it.

I also have two theories that may perplex you.

1 Luke died not long after the hut fell on him, of his injuries, he made it to arch to, but like he told Rey "I came here to die" he was six sensing for the whole movie, that is why when he appeared at the end he looked like he did the day he nearly killed Ben.

2 Sensing what Holdo had in mind, Liea swapped bodies with her, which makes the "I changed my hair" line even more relevant.

They could play this two ways in episode 9, either Holdo in Lieas body can't handle the guilt of the sacrifice liea made for her and goes away, or the body swap was an illusion that fades, meaning she goes back to looking like Laura Dern again.

Or the liea that looks like Laura Dern managed to Mary Poppins off the ship again, and she turns up as Liea again.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:34 am 
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As I finally realised I’m not going to get to see this film anytime soon I relented and watched a few reviews on YouTube.

They were ‘meh’ on the film. Then the suggested videos popped up.

Oh. My.

What went wrong? It seems like 9/10 reviews absolutely hate this film. So I relented and ploughed through the spoiler Zone.

Eh? What? Mmmm, ok...
Spoiler:
I thought the first was was a joke review. Leia flies through space like superman? Eh? Luke tosses his fathers lightsaber, the one he was holding when he lost a hand over his shoulder? Finn and a new character go on an adventure that’s completely pointless. Rey can throw rocks about with no effort. Snoke gets the Darth Maul treatment after doing absolutely nothing. And so on.

Is this a parody film? Was there a laughter track??



Sigh. Ignoring the political angle which seems to be in everything these days and going on a purely Star Wars canon angle - does this film really wee all over the previous films characters and the like, even to the extent of chucking out the interesting stuff from only two years ago???

I’m not sure I want to watch it now. Only myself to blame for looking at reviews but still... so much dislike. So much dislike out there.

Reassure me Offtopica2 folks! Is it worth watching this as a long time fan of Star Wars and Luke in particular.

Hell it even seems like Hamill himself has been warning us for months with those cryptic interviews he did.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:09 am 
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Perdide wrote:
It seems like 9/10 reviews absolutely hate this film.


This probably says more about the internet then it does about this particular film. Millions of people are enjoying this film but all we hear about are a few man babies who want the film to be exactly the same as the fan fiction that they have lovingly crafted in their mum's basement. The same people probably complained that The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope. They want the films to be different from the originals but they also don't want anything to change.

Go and see it. It'll cost you a tenner and a few hours of your life and at the very worst you will be have an educated opinion of why it is rubbish.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 am 
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Kang the Conqueror wrote:
Perdide wrote:
It seems like 9/10 reviews absolutely hate this film.


This probably says more about the internet then it does about this particular film. Millions of people are enjoying this film but all we hear about are a few man babies who want the film to be exactly the same as the fan fiction that they have lovingly crafted in their mum's basement. The same people probably complained that The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope. They want the films to be different from the originals but they also don't want anything to change.

Go and see it. It'll cost you a tenner and a few hours of your life and at the very worst you will be have an educated opinion of why it is rubbish.


Wot he said.

I am in the loved it train though.
But can understand why some don't like it.

It's a pity you spoiled yourself, because this is one that really needed seeing blind, just to have the "WTF did I just see" feeling during and after the showing, then having the digestion time to decide if you liked it or not.

This is not your typical cookie cutter blockbuster, or cookie cutter Star Wars film. It knows it audience, and plays with them to give them a new experience and expand its universe. Whether people like it or not is up to them.

Does it have its problems, sure. But what film doesn't. And some of the criticism does address that, but it is being drowned by the geekgasm of in universe unexpectedness and choices.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:44 am 
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Well, I was ultimately disappointed by it, and the more I think about it the more it annoys me, for many of the reasons in the spoiler box in Perdide's post, and quite a few others. I think I'm entitled to dislike this film without being called a man baby, frankly.

Basically, Perdide, if you're looking at those criticisms and thinking "WTF!?" then you'll probably do the same when you watch the film.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Hmm. I will see it eventually but can’t at the moment so probably when it hits DVD / Download.

I’m not liking the way recent IP revivals seem to be designed to spilt existing fanbases though, it’s not the first time this has happened and I’m not sure what the point really is. If it’s just to get rid of existing fans in favour of new viewers that seems a little mean spirited and not very inclusionary. It’s also shooting yourself in the foot as fans generally spend a lot of money.

They don’t have to knock everything to pieces to tell a new story.

I’ll get to it eventually though.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Perdide wrote:
Hmm. I will see it eventually but can’t at the moment so probably when it hits DVD / Download.

I’m not liking the way recent IP revivals seem to be designed to spilt existing fanbases though, it’s not the first time this has happened and I’m not sure what the point really is. If it’s just to get rid of existing fans in favour of new viewers that seems a little mean spirited and not very inclusionary. It’s also shooting yourself in the foot as fans generally spend a lot of money.

They don’t have to knock everything to pieces to tell a new story.

I’ll get to it eventually though.


You should worry, try being a fan of Marvel Comics. I am afraid this is the risk we take as adults who still like the same things we did when we were kids, that they might eventually make the films for them and not us.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Kang the Conqueror wrote:
Perdide wrote:
Hmm. I will see it eventually but can’t at the moment so probably when it hits DVD / Download.

I’m not liking the way recent IP revivals seem to be designed to spilt existing fanbases though, it’s not the first time this has happened and I’m not sure what the point really is. If it’s just to get rid of existing fans in favour of new viewers that seems a little mean spirited and not very inclusionary. It’s also shooting yourself in the foot as fans generally spend a lot of money.

They don’t have to knock everything to pieces to tell a new story.

I’ll get to it eventually though.


You should worry, try being a fan of Marvel Comics. I am afraid this is the risk we take as adults who still like the same things we did when we were kids, that they might eventually make the films for them and not us.


Well they will eventually otherwise the franchise will keel over and die. The adults when we were kids were probably fuming at the stuff we liked!! :D

I don't see the need to be deliberately attempting to flush old continuity, canon etc away or retcon stuff just to essentially find a new audience. They can do that anyway, it's called a reboot. Just don't go out of your way to include the old stuff so you can knock it down, after all the kids don't care about that, they've probably not seen it.

If they make new stuff without panning old we could all enjoy it!

I don't know much about Marvel though, sorry. Aren't they part of Disney too now though?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:07 am 
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Perdide wrote:
I don't see the need to be deliberately attempting to flush old continuity, canon etc away or retcon stuff just to essentially find a new audience. They can do that anyway, it's called a reboot. Just don't go out of your way to include the old stuff so you can knock it down, after all the kids don't care about that, they've probably not seen it.

If they make new stuff without panning old we could all enjoy it!

I don't know much about Marvel though, sorry. Aren't they part of Disney too now though?


The only thing worse than retcons are reboots. Soft reboots are the best way to go.

And yes Marvel is part of Disney but then everything is part of Disney these days.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:49 am 
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Ah the soft reboot. Where someone had a semi original idea but hollywood wouldn’t accept it as it might be too financially risky, so they renamed it to something that has a sellable name, chucked in a few character names from that IP and be done with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:24 am 
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Saw Star Wars once at the cinema, Empire twice a week apart, Jedi I did twice in the same day, Once for all the prequels and then The Force Awakens twice again a day apart, Was ased togo see this in Sunday with a firend and decline, I may (nay probably will) get this on Bluray but I don't have any urge to rewatch it ...at all

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:10 am 
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Perdide wrote:
What went wrong? It seems like 9/10 reviews absolutely hate this film. So I relented and ploughed through the spoiler Zone.

Eh? What? Mmmm, ok...
Spoiler:
I thought the first was was a joke review. Leia flies through space like superman? Eh? Luke tosses his fathers lightsaber, the one he was holding when he lost a hand over his shoulder? Finn and a new character go on an adventure that’s completely pointless. Rey can throw rocks about with no effort. Snoke gets the Darth Maul treatment after doing absolutely nothing. And so on.

Is this a parody film? Was there a laughter track??


Reassure me Offtopica2 folks! Is it worth watching this as a long time fan of Star Wars and Luke in particular.


I'm in the "I loved it" camp, so if you've taken the things in the spoiler box as negatives, then maybe my viewpoint won't sway you, but here goes anyway...

Basically, everything you mention does happen, but when you watch it as a whole it makes sense and fits with the themes of the film. You can list it like you've done there and some of it sounds stupid, but it didn't come across that way to me when I saw it on screen. If the reviews you've seen didn't like the film, then yes, they'll be disparaging about the events. You could do the same for events in the original trilogy, if you wanted - the mighty Jedi master is a puppet frog? The Falcon is chased by a slug in space? The Emperor dies without any back story? Those are possible descriptions of events in the OT, but I wouldn't call them fair or accurate. It's all about interpretation, and I think until you see it for yourself you won't know if you agree with the reviews.

There are people in this thread who didn't like it, and that's OK - it is definitely a different take on Star Wars, but I was happy to see that. Maybe you won't be, but it's worth watching first before judging.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:33 pm 
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I absolutely detested this movie, but despite the bad there were some fantastic visuals and set pieces to enjoy in there that are worth seeing on the big screen. I think as a Star Wars fan you owe it to yourself to see it on the big screen as intended and so you can also develop your own opinions on the film rather than being told it is good or bad. It is all based purely on opinion after all, and you never know, you might even like it. Plenty of others do. It is very much a Marmite experience. You’ll either love it or hate it, there is no middle ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:46 am 
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One question my older Nephew asked : is the Medical Frigate the same one as in Empire Strikes Back ?

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